Comments on: Good, Bad and Ugly: Illinois https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/ Indiana Hoosiers men's basketball news, recruiting and analysis. Wed, 13 Jan 2010 01:47:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.5.5 By: oldiugymnast https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-2/#comment-45690 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 01:47:55 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45690 You know, I love basketball and grew up in Indiana (too short for bball though) and understand the game pretty well. In CA even at 41 I can out play most of the 25 year olds here just because I grew up in THE basketball state. That said, I have a little trouble with all of the comments second guessing Coach Crean. First off, he is in practice and knows the kids. I don't and neither do any of the people commenting here. Second, having coached another sport at the highest level, I understand the value of putting your athletes in difficult or learning situations. It is clear that Coach sees this season as a season to build skills and capacity rather than one in which having a great record is important. I think based on his ability to take large leads with the lack of personnel he had last year that Coach Crean knows what he is doing, and I am quite certain that there is a method to his madness.

I was disappointed in the outcome of this game, sure. I always want IU to win. But I would not castigate a Coach who has been given the unenviable task of digging this program out of the deep hole that Sampson dug. Yeah, I like ball screens, ball movement, tough d and team d just like every other good Indiana boy that learned how to run a pick and roll when they were 10, but I am not on that bench and I don't know those kids. I am pleased with the progress and with the team for now. I think it is more than premature to be calling for the coaches head (like Smitty does) when the team has only his very young and very first recruiting class and is still hampered by sanctions. We weren't supposed to beat Illinois anyway, they were ranked in the top 25 (wrongly) coming into the season. That we had a decent chance at the end of the game is something to celebrate.

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By: aceman07 https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-2/#comment-45686 Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:19:33 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45686 It might be different in baseball but I coached for years and it was very possible to teach kids how to be tougher and how to play to win instead of playing not to lose. You do that by working them in tough situations under stress and creating an atmosphere where winning is expected! To me, watching this team so far this year, it appears as if they don't expect to win, ever! They celebrate each victory like they've just won the Super Bowl and when they have a lead they tighten up and play to maintain a lead instead of extending it. That's what I mean by coaching toughness. It's possible to coach a team to the point where winning is an attitude and you don't choke. We could be down a run in the bottom of the seventh inning and I never felt like were going to lose because the atmosphere of the program was that we were always going to win, so more times than not, we came back and won the game. The culture of winning also made it easy for us to put games away when we took a lead. I just don't see any of that in these guys and I don't understand why it can't be brought out of them. Surely most of them played for winning programs in high school so they should be used to that winning culture.

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By: BigRed3588 https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-2/#comment-45673 Tue, 12 Jan 2010 07:33:43 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45673 I think the main reason we don't see Elston more is he has shown to be a bit of a defensive liability. I've noticed a few times that he is out of position when switching off on screens and it has led to baskets for the other team. That being said, he's not the only big man we have that struggles defensively and I feel like his offensive production could not only offset his difficulties on defense but improve his D by giving him that confidence boost.

As for Dumes, I agree with the limited minutes. We could use his defense a little more, but frankly, I'm tired of seeing him hoist threes with 30 seconds left on the shot clock. As one person above stated, he's never seen a shot he didn't like and he simply misses too much. Also, I think his limited minutes are the reason he's playing smarter. If starting was a certainty, I expect we'd see the same careless play from last year.

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By: plane1972 https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-2/#comment-45663 Tue, 12 Jan 2010 03:43:55 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45663 I agree with you, Cooper, that people don't know Elston well enough to substantiate rumors of him transferring, but I also don't think you know the situation well enough to say 1) that he has lost his confidence and 2) that it's because Crean is not playing him. Maybe his play has been affected by some cute cheerleader who broke his heart. Maybe a little far-fetched, I admit. Have you seen our cheerleaders? Oh, that was out of line. I apologize.

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By: cooper https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45656 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:40:30 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45656 love to see where people say Elston will or will not transfer like they know him so well. We can all give opinions but no one really knows. I don't really care how the players look in practice unless they just aren't trying. He has shown he is more talented than any other 4/5 on the roster. With that said I could see him transferring if he doesn't get minutes. Its clear he has lost his confidence from earlier in the year and thats due to Crean not playing him.

There is a difference between committed and stubborn and Crean is becoming stubborn in how he is substituting and coaching. The 2nd half is all about adjustments, Weber made them and Crean didn't.

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By: BGleas https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45654 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:36:10 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45654 I think this lineup is worth a shot, why not? Lots of guys have gotten an opportunity this year, but for some reason Elston and Dumes seem to have not gotten as much of a chance. Elston in particular deserves a shot at extended minutes IMO.

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By: BGleas https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45653 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:29:41 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45653 You can't coach toughness, it's just something ingrained in players. Either you have or you don't. You can get a guy to play tougher for stretches, but you'll most likely revert to your true self/style of play.

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By: Wish https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45652 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:10:06 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45652 For how ecstatic I was about IU in the first half, I was just as disappointed in the second half. The glaring need of veteran leadership on the floor really stood out in my mind as the veteran Illini players just kept grinding and grinding while the IU youngsters seemed to play to not to lose.

I thought there were a few instances where Crean could have called timeout to slow down a run but I can understand if he was letting his boys play in an effort to teach them to play through adversity. The young IU big men (5 spot) were atrocious, slow and passive. Sometimes I wish that an opposing player would punch Pritchard in the nose just to see what would happen.

This loss hurts but we weren't supposed to beat Pitt so I guess this loss evens that out. Realistically, I'm hoping this team can finish at .500 while showing some more flashes of leadership on the floor out of the players. Every game I wish that VJ would take over and become a leader but it hasn't happened yet. Rivers would be perfect for the job but he's still learning on the job himself….maybe next year.

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By: btowncain https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45650 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:02:30 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45650 YES,YES, and YES!!! lol I've been thinking about what kind of lineup we should be playing with right now and that is the BEST lineup and the one that makes the most sense. Think about it for a minute and break it down, Rivers and Dumes provide upperclassman support and should put us in a good spot to start games, VJ3 is playing very good basketball and the only knock on him is to figure out how to make plays late in games and if he's going to drive in the lane stop getting in bad position to not be able to do anything, Watford and Elston give us our best front court scoring and athleticism, and CTC needs to play Bawa much more because I feel he can contribute right now, I know he looks lost at times but when he's on the court he does make plays. Our bench rotation should be Hulls, Moore, BobbyC, Pritchard, and Bawa.

And don't believe any Elston transfer rumors because he's staying put for 4 years, CTC is just trying to find what works on the court and once he starts @Michigan this week he'll be a lock on the court for the rest of the season.

Any word on if we will see Roth on the court this season? I would love to put him and Hulls on the court with Rivers dribble drive.

One more thing, this program is coming back it's just going to take another year or so and a top player or two in the next 2 classes and we with be thinking BigTen champs and much more. GO HOOSIERS!!!

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By: MillaRed https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45649 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:11:04 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45649 Hey guys, can we please bury the Elston transfer bs until we get a legitimate report on the subject? The kid has played 14 Division 1 games. Do you think he expected to average a double-double at this point in his career? I agree the playing time is curious but from what I have read, this is a stand-up kid from a great Indiana family. I don't see a transfer making any sense in a rebuilding year.

The more I think about Rivers the more frustrated I get. So much potential. Man it would be great if he put it all together next year. The guy is a top 10 athlete in the Big Ten.

How about this line-up?

Rivers
Dumes
VIII
Watford
Elston

This is in my opinion our best scoring line-up. It thins out the bench but who cares? These guards are capable of playing a lot of minutes anyway. What do you guys think?

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By: Taskmaster75 https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45648 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:10:42 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45648 To be fair, the officials just wouldn't let Pritchard play defense. That was just godawful. He touches Tisdale and they blow the whistle. Most of the fouls he got weren't his fault.

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By: aceman07 https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45647 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:17:37 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45647 I want to add this a full day after the game . . . to Derek Elston – If you would ever consider transferring, DON'T!!! Us true Indiana fans love to see a home grown boy succeed at IU and despite a bit of freshman discrimination (maybe because you committed before CTC got here) we all think you are a top notch recruit and perfect for Indiana! Work on those free throws and stick around to become a fan favorite and great big man here at IU!!!

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By: trailrunner https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45646 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 06:02:52 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45646 Two questions

1. Can someone explain our half court offense to me. I am baffled. Illinois ran plays at the end to win and we play one on one. It seems like deja vu all over again (Mike Davis). Dumes never saw a shot he did not like. Please someone tell me what are the goals of this offense.

2. Why does Elston not play more? Is he in the doghouse for some reason? He has the potential to be an all conference player in my opinion.

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By: Druid https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45645 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:47:14 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45645 It seems to me that Tom P. is notorious for fouling also so what would be the difference? And with Jobe or Muniru the height difference would be eliminated.

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By: Alex https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45644 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:28:25 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45644 Zeller and Rivers were indeed there. Also in attendance: Shawn Teague (no Marquis), A.J. Hammons and Yogi Ferrell. Could have been others, but that's the list I spotted.

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By: Kelin Blab https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45643 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:21:44 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45643 Jerry….
Elston and Dumes minutes bother me some. Dumes for instance I think is playing more under control this year and it could be due to his minutes being controlled more. Now he did throw a nice elbow yesterday, but it seems when he is on the court for a 'period' of time and for a reason, he does well…..when he has ample minutes, I think you open yourself up for things like we had last year…

With Elston….ofcourse we don't know what goes on in practice…..I think he should be playing more, but I don't think he has found his place yet. I can't say enough, offensively, Elston has more game than he has shown, just not sure if he is comfortable being that assertive as Christian is.

Wateford on D vs Davis was solid solid solid.

Having a 3yr old has give me the patience of Job…..so my IU team is in good shape.

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By: JerryCT https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45642 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:09:44 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45642 + I fully agree on Moore………..and like his energy .

+ I fully agree on off ball screens which only Elston seems to do

+ You need to credit Dumes for playing under near full control this year….also great

+ Add Watford's D on Davis to your list

+ Why did Elston not take the open 3, I think he can hit it

– Not sure why the Elston, Dumes minutes donot bother you into some controlled “impatience”

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By: ldiu https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45641 Sun, 10 Jan 2010 23:59:45 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45641 It would be hard to blame Elston if he did transfer. He played 10 minutes last night and had 6 rebounds. Bob C. played 21 minutes with 4 rebounds and Pritchard played 19 minutes with 3.
Elston is also a better scorer and moves better.

Do you think that being a Sampson recruit and not a Crean recruit hurts him? Sure hope not.

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By: Kelin Blab https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45640 Sun, 10 Jan 2010 23:36:28 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45640 I did read on here that Austin Rivers and Tyler Zeller was at the game. Can someone verify this.
+ What is up with the fans this year…I know EJ is gone but no “name” driven chants, especially with Zeller and Austin Rivers possibly being there. (we must keep the austin rivers rumors going people it may work)

+ I have actually liked the ball pressure, ball handling, and improvements of Daniel Moore. Compared to last year he has gotten better and did some good things when he came in.

+ I want to see more off the ball screens in the offense, but they ran some good sets yesterday and got good shots.

+ I am not going to beat up on Crean til next year maybe because I have some insight on what it is to build a program from nothing and given in his first two years at IU literally has an all new starting five, and yet still competing at this level, I am just going to be patient.

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By: Druid https://www.insidethehall.com/2010/01/09/good-bad-and-ugly-illinois-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45638 Sun, 10 Jan 2010 23:25:25 +0000 https://www.insidethehall.com/?p=5079#comment-45638 I would like to add to the Elston themes. I for the life of me, cannot understand why we don't keep Derek in for most of the game. This kid gives you 100% at all times. He is an Indiana kid and he gets it about what it is to be a Hoosier. He is a scoring threat and in my opinion, he is, or definitely should be, a huge part of rebuilding this team. He defends well and can score from either inside or out and is quick enough to guard smaller players. I can't begin to guess what Crean's motives are as to why he isn't starting and playing more minutes but it is my opinion coach should rethink his rotations and starting line-ups. Also believe that last nights loss rest solely on Coach Crean's shoulders. Having a walk-on on the floor when you are sitting Elston as well as Dumes is in this writers opinion …crazy. It's hard to build the confidence and team chemistry when outstanding players like Elston and Dumes are riding the pine. Playing time it seems to me should be given to scholarship players that are obviously very good rather than walk-ons. Just my opinion. And I surely hope that Elston stays with our program. Losing him would be very bad for us. I love to watch him play and grow as a Hoosier.

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